Talk:Earth Clan (5e Race)

well when I first made this I try to leave it as a race made through magical mean and was used as a special bodyguard for nobles or royal families and it was not good there not trying to refer to a family they serve, so it won't go against the standard for character creation. But I went to use the actual background from the series of the earth clan and as you see it has it copyright tags on it to show that, but because it was not flavorful enough from what it was for its history originally from what I put in. as for they serve the family can see as a past tense since it just their origins not how it is now. and so I remove some lines and added a line to state it just an origin/history of the race not something to be held to or needed to be added to the characters at all just there for an idea of how the race was made/develop throughout their existence --Kasai

I'm not entirely sure what you are saying but from what I'll respond the best I can. You are free to make characters and backgrounds based on whatever content you wish, however, any race uploaded to the wiki in order to stay on the wiki and ensure quality throughout is required to conform to the wiki's standards. Writing the lore for a race like this should be easy as you are basing it on a series allowing you to draw from that series heavily and help inform your writing, though, it is important while drawing inspiration from other sources that you tie the lore of the race in with the standard D&D lore so it can be applied to the standard array of campaigns and settings. Finally, the balance of the race requires a serious look at, writing an original piece of lore will be nought if this page is deleted based on balance concerns. --ConcealedLight (talk) 03:10, 28 February 2018 (MST)

"Stronger than any first party race and uses incomplete and incorrect wording throughout. The traits need to be mechanically worded correctly as they are often vague or written like casual conversation. 40 feet walking speed, class features as racial traits, unarmored defense, long rest reductions. Overall poorly executed and needs a rework both from a mechanic and lore perspective to better integrate with the first party content. Consult the 5e Race Design Guide for help and see the Featured Articles pages for some exemplary content."

• 1st sentence is a wording issue
• 40 movement I think was updated because I see 35 which aligns with other racial traits
• Darkvision, Enhance Senses, Shape-Changer, Superior Recovery, Tough Hide are all traits of: various races, various races have skill proficiencies, changeling changes shape, elves long rest in half the time, and loxodons have natural armor.
• the only poor execution I see is the lore/fluff.

And another zealous attempt to delete a page. ~ BigShotFancyMan ^{talk contributions} 07:38, 22 March 2019 (MDT)

If you want to discuss an issue with a template or highlight how it can be better communicated you're free to do so, however, the final remark is not civil nor contributes to a stress-free editing environment. Please try to avoid such remarks in the future. I'll write up another template with your comments and recent edits in mind. —ConcealedLight (talk) 08:37, 22 March 2019 (MDT)

I apologize for offending. I will try harder to not imitate my peers on the site. ~ BigShotFancyMan ^{talk contributions} 08:45, 22 March 2019 (MDT)

Why can't long rests be reduced to half? Or why must it be worded how the elf does it? The text says you're still asleep so this is different than the trance. Not sure why at will shapechange is an issue considering changlings can do it. so either clarity for that or it can be removed too because in of itself it isn't a balance thing! I didn't find it too vague either; reads pretty clear that you become a werewolf at will. needsbalance but not vague. ~ BigShotFancyMan ^{talk contributions} 09:55, 22 March 2019 (MDT)

If a long rest takes half as long, in practicality this is saying you can take two long rests in the tame it takes the rest of the party to take one. So while everyone else regains half their hit dice, you regain all your hit dice. This is just straight up unbalanced.

The shapechange is vague as it is mechanically incomplete. All you have to do is look at the druid's shapechange to see what is missing. Marasmusine (talk) 10:03, 22 March 2019 (MDT)

I've taken a look at the changeling. Unless there's a publication I'm not aware of I presume this is the Unearthed Arcana changeling. This is playtest material. Two things to note. Firstly, it does say it requires an action, which is the first thing the earth clan shapechange is missing. Next is the keyword polymorph, which I think UA fails to emphasise. It's referring to 5e SRD:Polymorph which has the rest of the missing information.

Finally, examining the CRs and spell levels involved with wild shape and polymorph, it's difficult to see how it can be balanced for a 1st-level character to change into a werewolf. Marasmusine (talk) 10:11, 22 March 2019 (MDT)

Elves can do just the same thing Mara? There is no extra benefit to a double rest. You return to full HP and gain all features and spells back. They can't get doubled that stuff because they do a double long rest in the 8 hours other get one.

Is there relevance to pointing out the changeling is playtest material? And because Action and polymorph aren't mentioned we lose recognition of what this trait is trying to accomplish? (Internal thought, can you {{needsbalance}} a {{needsbalance}} because it was vague?) If those were the issues though, they should be included instead of leaving things as vague and for users to try and decipher or figure out what is vague. Why is the onus on the user to reach out and ask when they never started the issue? ~ BigShotFancyMan ^{talk contributions} 10:19, 22 March 2019 (MDT)

Yeah I can't argue with shapeshifting into a werewolf as unbalanced. That is the easiest thing to agree on. Its just not been said in the templates. ~ BigShotFancyMan ^{talk contributions} 10:19, 22 March 2019 (MDT)

Elves can sleep for 4 hours instead of 8 hours. Sleeping is not the same as taking a long rest (although you often do both a the same time). Marasmusine (talk) 10:31, 22 March 2019 (MDT)

I'm sorry, are we discussing the difference between whether elves sleep or don't sleep? Or is about getting the benefits of a long rest after four hours? Because I was definitely pointing out that elves remain conscious and gain the benefits of a long rest after 4 hours, much like this other trait except the race actually sleeps. ~ BigShotFancyMan ^{talk contributions} 10:40, 22 March 2019 (MDT)

Elves do not gain the benefit of a long rest after 4 hours. Marasmusine (talk) 11:34, 22 March 2019 (MDT)

Admittedly I may be working on old Sage Advice content. Marasmusine (talk) 11:40, 22 March 2019 (MDT)

This would explain our impasse. I wasn't aware a time that Trance didn't bestow long rest benefits to an Elf after 4 hours. ~ BigShotFancyMan ^{talk contributions} 11:53, 22 March 2019 (MDT)

You can see the old Advice in the discussion at http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?4448-New-Errata-Sage-Advice-Compendium-%28Sleep-Trance-Are-Fixed!%29

There's actually something else that I missed. My worry was that you could take 2 long rests while everyone takes 1. But I realize now that you can't do that. The rule for Long Rest explicitly says that you can't take more than 1 long rest in a 24 hour period. So a 4-hour long rest is not a balance issue at all. Marasmusine (talk) 12:45, 22 March 2019 (MDT)